Up@dawn 2.0

Tuesday, March 31, 2020

Nietzsche


The main book I used to make this is "Nietzsche: A Very Short Introduction". I had seen ideas of Nietzsche before but never really asked the question of what he stood for which is why I choose him as my presentation. I enjoyed the Atheism book we began with in class and thought the author would be good to read for a second book. I was disappointed when I realized it is a separate author and not AS well written but it was still helpful in learning who Nietzsche was.  I do not have a camera or a good mic at my house so this will simply be a written report.

Nietzsche was a discarded philosopher during his life, and he disliked almost every part of contemporary life as a pessimist. He didn’t begin to pick up notice until his late years where he declined rapidly in mental health. His writing style consisted of jotting down his half-baked ideas so he could reflect and return to them later-he dealt with his problems by writing them- so much of his work is a work in progress with notes that are left unworked out. He began his career amongst the musical heritage of Germany, which he believed gave Germans a sensitivity to truth and value the other nations lacked. He was particularly interested in the amount of ecstasy music can induce in a group of people.
He had an interesting view on the world and believed in an “Eternal Recurrence” where the number of atoms in the universe was a set and that at some point in their existence they had to reach a configuration that they had occupied beforehand. This reoccurring configuration results in the history of the universe repeating itself.

Here is an excerpt from "Nietzsche Wept" on Eternal Recurrence- it wasn't a great movie.

                He valued the different points of view on any subject and thought that we all should endeavor to take up as many of them as possible in order to grasp the full reality of anything. Reality itself to him was only justified in the field of aesthetics which all beings take part in- an aesthetic of life so to say. He believed our actions in this world were our only purpose, and whether they were pleasing to the collective reality is all that mattered. However, even ‘ugly’ aesthetics were to be embraced and accepted because there is no waste in our lives. This comes with the idea of Eternal Recurrence, believing that if we desire for anything that has occurred in our lives to occur again, then we accept any suffering and pain that has come before it because without the undesirable experience there could be no occurrence of the current desirable experience.
Those who try to eliminate pain in the world are taking natural matters into their own hands and could be unconsciously doing more damage than good, as the person in pain might need that pain to grow or there is a greater reward at the end of the pain; suffering is explained as a vehicle for the most aesthetic outcome. In general, to Nietzsche, there is no greatness in an individual unless they have a readiness to endure and manipulate pain, and goodness in an individual is the effort towards eliminating pain. Pain itself is not a negative thing, but just a thing, something with a greater purpose. The primordial force in life, the ‘primal one’, itself is a mixture of pain and pleasure, with pain dominating over pleasure. As such the best type of person is one who can carry off anything, or at least endure, even experiences that are embarrassing/humiliating.

Have you ever said yes to a single joy? Then you have said yes to all woes in life since the causal state is that in order for something to come around, reality must be in the state it is currently in. - Zarathustra (Nietzsche’s fictional prophet)


Nietzsche was at odds with Christianity, believing that it was the most elaborate moral theme in humanity, which tried to take the suffering in the history of humanity and salvage it by presenting a divine plan to the present and rewards for later. Religion imparts value in life in relation to a separate world, though his belief is that value is given to reality through meaningless repetition (Eternal Recurrence). He did not like religion but didn’t necessarily oppose it either. He respected the society it had created in a moral sense and feared what would become of the world once society had realized that God was non-existent; that humanity would fall into a state where values no longer influenced them. Christianity’s morality is divinely given because man cannot know the difference between good and evil on their own, so the Christian morals live and die with their God. In fact, he denies the existence of morality or immorality at all, not necessarily the feeling of them, but that there is any reason to feel them. Acts can be considered moral or immoral, but morality is not some gift from heaven that falls to grace humanity.
When all is said and done Nietzsche didn’t believe it mattered if God truly existed or not, it only mattered what people believed. If the belief in God is what made believers beautiful, or aesthetically pleasing in their action, then it wasn’t necessarily a bad thing. A false judgment isn’t something that NEEDS to be corrected if the judgment gives quality towards life expectancy and quality for the individual and others around them. Being correct doesn’t matter, only a beautiful existence.
It is worth noting that since most of Nietzsche’s is a work in progress it is hard to state exactly what his ideas where and what was simply a passing thought he planned to work out later- so it is important to take his works as something to reflect on instead of something to be taken as his true standing.

Is pain evil, or necessary for improvement? Are those who try to help others in pain overstepping their bounds?
What are your thoughts on Eternal Recurrence? Do you think it is feasible?
Is religion validated regardless of truth if it causes ‘moral’ actions to occur?
Is a willingness to undergo pain all someone needs to become successful?
Do morals exist?

9 comments:

  1. "Nietzsche didn’t believe it mattered if God truly existed or not, it only mattered what people believed. If the belief in God is what made believers beautiful, or aesthetically pleasing in their action, then it wasn’t necessarily a bad thing." Hmmm. Not sure about this, it sounds a little too accommodating for Nietzsche. He was pretty adamant that "God is dead and we have killed him." I can't think of any passages in his major works that say what a pragmatist like Wm James said, that the positive fruits of a belief in god justify it. He more typically emphasized the negative fruits, such as what he called slave morality, or "ressentiment," or generally those Christian/Platonic/transcendental values that give the weak majority an advantage over the minority elite (like himself).

    Despite an early infatuation with Nietzsche's emphasis on self-overcoming and the empowering potential of adversity and even pain ("what doesn't kill me makes me stronger" etc.), I eventually came to agree with James in pitying "poor Nietzsche's antipathies," his misogyny and misanthropy and general anti-humanism.

    And yet, and yet... eternal recurrence CAN be life-affirming, the will to confront one's own weakness CAN push a person beyond his previously-perceived limitations. I'm glad we have a Nietzsche to quarrel with. I'm also glad we don't have a society of Nietzsches to deal with!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. If you're looking for something better to read on Nietzsche, I'd begin with John Kaag's "Hiking With Nietzsche".It's "a tale of two philosophical journeys--one made by John Kaag as an introspective young man of nineteen, the other seventeen years later, in radically different circumstances: he is now a husband and father, and his wife and small child are in tow. Kaag sets off for the Swiss peaks above Sils Maria where Nietzsche wrote his landmark work Thus Spoke Zarathustra. Both of Kaag's journeys are made in search of the wisdom at the core of Nietzsche's philosophy, yet they deliver him to radically different interpretations and, more crucially, revelations about the human condition..."

      https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/37941732-hiking-with-nietzsche

      Delete
    2. Also see Ed's report last semester in Happiness:

      https://philoshap.blogspot.com/2019/10/nietzsche-prophet-of-overcoming.html

      Delete
    3. I do take back the "didn’t believe it mattered if God truly existed" Because it obviously mattered with all of his accounts against God (I've been trying to find the little book I used but cant seem to find it to reiterate where I got the idea from- the only place I haven't looked that it might be is my job which is a school so I've given up my search) I know that I ment in a moral sense where he thought that people would become unruly had the general public accepted that God was non-existent, and due to this the idea of God was not a purely evil or bad concept.

      Since I have plenty of time on my hands I will definitely get a copy of "Hiking With Nietzsche" so I can understand a bit more about his ideas (I prefer physical books to online reading)

      Delete
  2. pop culture reference:
    rust cohle of true detective.
    "time is a flat circle"

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Ha, ha. This show keeps coming up. I need to see it!

      Delete
  3. Yes, thanks keeping this very angry philosopher alive and in conversation, Crystal. I've long appreciated Nietzsche's trenchant criticism of Christianity. The analysis of ressentiment is a bit heavy-handed and psychologically speculative, but also too compelling to ignore.

    As for your question about eternal recurrence, my thoughts focus on how this idea might, as Dr. Oliver suggests, test our ability to affirm life notwithstanding its most challenging absurdities. If we can truly recognize all that's profoundly limiting about life and still say, still live a Yes in response, then I think we've passed the test. One hell of a test!

    ReplyDelete
  4. I wonder what Nietzsche would say about pseudo-eternal recurrence of the sort sci-fi now speculates about, for instance with virtual Alan Watts in "Her," or in that Picard finale I spoke of the other day: what did Data call it, a "massively complex quantum simulation" of self-awareness based on replicated neural patterns that have been "uploaded" prior to death, or some such? I wouldn't call that living, but it would definitely be a form of recurrence. Would you say YES to that, Nietzsche?

    ReplyDelete
  5. Is pain evil, or necessary for improvement? Are those who try to help others in pain overstepping their bounds?

    This is an interesting question. I think that pain isn't "evil" itself (intentionally inflicting pain upon another may be though). But pain is a part of life, and I do think that people can improve from painful experiences. But, I don't think that pain guarantees improvement. Pain can be debilitating and there are lots of people who suffer and never grow as a result of pain. So, I think painful events can be an opportunity for growth, but I also think that goodness (love, compassion, humility) is necessary for that growth too. Because of that, I don't think that trying to help others that are in pain is a bad thing. I think it should be encouraged! We are are not meant to take things on alone. The one in pain ultimately has to endure and do the work, but that doesn't mean that no one should help them along the way.

    ReplyDelete