1. How can most of us not help but view Epicurus's argument, according to Feldman and others?
2. What strategy is at the heart of the Epicurean position (though they might have disagreed)?
3. What's an example of a desire that's potentially neither conditional nor categorical?
4. What's the paradox or puzzle at the heart of our mortal experience?
5. What's problematic about "reconceptualizing" immortality in noncorporeal and disembodied terms?
6. Does recognition of humanity's temporal limits exert a formative influence on our ideas of value?
DQ:
- Is there really something sadistic about Scheffler's Epicurean torturer's words, in the context of this scenario?
- Is Nagel's deprivation theory really beside the point of Scheffler's question as to the status of our fear of death? 85
- Is the prospect of not growing old, attending your child's wedding, enjoying your grandchildren etc. something you fear? If not, how do you think about that prospect (if you do)? "Philosophically" and stoically, tragically, angrily, uncannily, vertiginously, in a panic, or... ?
- Would it be irrational and/or unreasonable to fear death even while acknowledging it as a condition of meaningfulness?
- Would you be irretrievably and eternally bored with an excessively, very, or super-long life? 90 How would you know, 'til you tried? And, is boredom such an awful prospect that you'd rather be dead? Must boredom really be unthinkable, and absorption constant, to make a long life appealing? Would the mere possibility of death be enough lighten the boredom of eternity? 95fn
- Since life has stages, do you imagine your attitudes towards long life will change as you age?
- Is the Rawls/justice analogy helpful, in clarifying Scheffler's assumption that temporal scarcity is a condition of valuing? Does it secure his point that you cannot imagine or appreciate living with all the time in the world? 99
- Literally and figuratively, do you plant trees? Which projects whose payoffs you don't expect to live to see are you committed to?
- Did you watch "World of Tomorrow"? What did you think? (See previous post)
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*Afterlife Comments - Susan Wolf, Harry Frankfurt, and Seana Shiffrin
1. What question did Scheffler shy away from, that Wolf finds irresistible?
2. What does Wolf think might we come to recognize, when reflecting on our concern for those in immediate need of care after the immediate shock of doomsday has worn off?
3. Who asked Alvy Singer's question before he (and Woody) did?
4. What does Harry Frankfurt think Scheffler underestiimates?
5. What does Frankfurt consider more fundamental in understanding us than our expectations of the future?
6. What does Shiffrin find deeply tragic about the infertility scenario?
DQ
- Do you place more credence in the conclusions of psychologists and social scientists, or the speculations of philosophers and novelists, in anticipating how we would react to the prospect of imminent extinction?
- In the infertility scenario the planet survives, even though humanity does not. Does this make it a happier scenario for you? Are you a closet misanthrope or a radical Green? Would you have to be, to answer affirmatively?
- Do you think most people are "either purely or dominantly egoistic"? 116 Are non-egoists voting for Trump?
- Do you think "it would be profoundly gratifuing" to you as a humanities scholar merely to be appreciated, but not importantly influential? 119
- Do you dance or play an instrument recreationally? If doomsday is announced tomorrow, will you dance or play again?
- Would the degree of apathy and anomie with which you greet doomsday depend on the quality of leadership exemplified by others? What would "the right leadership" look like?
- Do you think thoughtful people have always been motivated by concern for posterity? Are we their fortunate beneficiaries? Do you feel an obligation to "pay it forward"?
- Frankfurt says obscure research can be pleasurable and rewarding, but "writing articles is not in itself a notably satisfying activity." 133 Can you explain the difference?
- Frankfurt says some of us might face a global catastrophe by wasting less time and working harder on our relationships, taking trips, doing other things we'd postponed, and just generally "seizing the day." Would you? Or would you become morose and withdrawn? Or...?
- Since tomorrow is Darwin Day: Is Frankfurt right that the explanation of our interest in the collective afterlife is "simply Darwinian"? 138
- Name some things (ideas, goals) you care about will require the continuing efforts of an indefinite number of generations. How confident are you that those things will be achieved? Does your answer incline you to reconsider your commitment to them?
- Do you feel more drawn to future-directed progressive projects, to backward-looking concern for the eventual fruition of our predecessors' projects, to both, or to neither?
- [Please suggest more DQs on Wolf, Frankfurt, and Shiffrin]
DQ?
ReplyDelete"If we always have such desires, we always have reason to avoid death, and if we always have reason to avoid death, then it seems that we have reason to want immortality". What are your thoughts about this?
What if your desire is to in turn die?
DeleteMy belief is in the desire to avoid pain that comes with death many a times, not death itself. I have the desire to pass in my sleep when I should go. It has been said it is painless, to which I have no desire to be in pain when I die.
Discussion Question - "Would you be irretrievably and eternally bored with an excessively, very, or super-long life? How would you know, 'til you tried? And, is boredom such an awful prospect that you'd rather be dead? Must boredom really be unthinkable, and absorption constant, to make a long life appealing? Would the mere possibility of death be enough lighten the boredom of eternity?"
ReplyDeletePersonally, immortality seems like a dream come true to me. The idea of watching the Earth, and possibly the universe, change and evolve around me and being able to truly experience history and evolution sounds amazing. After our death, we no longer get to experience how the world may or may not have changed around us. It could be for the better or worse, but we would never know. I don't mind boredom myself and find myself coming up with brilliant ideas whenever I have "nothing better to do." It is human nature to constantly want more and more, no matter how much we already have, and I believe it to have potential of creating a world filled with madness, such as many wanting to "rule the world/universe" after they feel as if they have everything they could possibly have before that point, but I wouldn't mind finding out either way, because there's a beauty in the experiences of our lives, whether or not if they're good or bad, but what experiences do we experience in death? That is something we may never be able to answer for ourselves, and at least in the idea of immortality, we have the control to create more and more experiences to cherish.
Discussion Question for the class - If humans were capable of immortality, such as given the choice to be immortal or mortal, what would you choose? How would you utilize your immortality/why would you only choose to stay a mortal?
DQ
ReplyDeleteDo you think 42 is a good age to be forever? If you wanted to be immortal, what age would you want to remain and why?
I've thought about this a lot, probably more than is healthy.
DeletePresuming the physiology is consistent with the age I chose, I feel like there's an important balancing act....young enough that you are at or near your physical prime, old enough to have developed mental facilities....it's not an easy question.
An argument could be made to go quite young, say 4 or 5, as that is an age where learning something is almost trivial and requires little effort....but that creates many physical limitations and there are questions about the development of the brain...at 4 it might not be capable of some higher thought functions.
At the older end, you wouldn't want to hit degeneration, physical or mental, but if it does take longer to learn something that isn't horrible....you have all the time you want.
Ultimately, I think 30 is close to right for me, but I could change my mind.
DQ?
ReplyDeleteDo you think there is an objective means of being able to properly flush out and set a framework of decision making to be used when discussing a being who is immortal?
Response: "Do you dance or play an instrument...?"
ReplyDeleteYes. I would continue to play for the entertainment of others. The end of the world doesn't seem like a very good reason to not have any enjoyable experiences. I think, I would get to a place of acceptance of the situation and try to make the most of the time I had left with family and friends. This would include playing music, dancing, playing games, etc. I would not think of these things as wasting time, but as ways of spending the time I had with the people I care about.
What do you think about Shiffrin's manipulative alien scenario?
ReplyDeleteQQ
ReplyDeleteHow does Wolf's alternative afterlife conjecture differ from Scheffler's?
"Frankfurt says obscure research can be pleasurable and rewarding, but "writing articles is not in itself a notably satisfying activity." 133 Can you explain the difference?"
ReplyDeleteI think the major difference is that a published article is implicitly a part of a conversation between experts or scholars. For it to be truly fulfilling, there should be reactions and a give and take between others after the publication. Research results (ideally) in discovery...while sharing that discovery would also be worthwhile, the discovery itself has great merit.
Do you dance or play an instrument recreationally? If doomsday is announced tomorrow, will you dance or play again?
ReplyDeleteI participate in several dance and dance-like activities, and I believe even if doomsday were announced tomorrow I would persist in them. For me, it comes back to Wolf's assertion that we would come together as a community both to grieve and survive. Creativity is a profound expression of intense emotion. This would both allow a personal, individual outlet as well as a communal one. However my view also applies to the intrinsic virtue the Frankfurt asserts.
Nick Strukov, Sean Martin, Dilvin Tayip
ReplyDeleteWe talked about the idea of how easily people can be persuaded out of ideas just as easily they are convinced into them.